Ločitev-wtf?!

Ločitev-wtf?!

PrispevekNapisal/a Ziggy » 19 Apr 2011, 18:31

Zakaj sta se TZM in TVP ločla? Ima kod več informacij?
Samo zaradi donacije filma so se skregali?

http://soundcloud.com/georgepacheco/tzm-tvp-meeting-april-19th

http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=3&id=333939&Itemid=100114


Zame je to ful šokantno :shock:

In mislim, da smo postali odveč, če ne smemo uporabljati njihova gradiva in omenjati okroglih mest.
RBE še vseeno lahko promoviramo ali? Bo TZM propadel?

Zmeden sem.


Peace & love
Be happy without any reason
Uporabniški avatar
Ziggy
 
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Re: Ločitev-wtf?!

PrispevekNapisal/a anubis92 » 19 Apr 2011, 18:45

To je pa res beda, mislem v kake debate se spuščajo pa isti cilj imajo/mo. Total bullshit, res kretenoidi, še ko se najde neki folka de bi res delal na spremembah še to morjo uničvat od znotraj.
anubis92
 
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Re: Ločitev-wtf?!

PrispevekNapisal/a fortehlulz » 19 Apr 2011, 19:31

The name of the organization originates from Venus, Florida, where its 21-acre (8.5-hectare) research center is located, near Lake Okeechobee.

Florida (i /ˈflɒrɪdə/) is a state in the southeastern United States, on the Gulf Coast.


:mrgreen:
Whenever people agree with me I feel I must be wrong...
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Re: Ločitev-wtf?!

PrispevekNapisal/a Tomaz » 19 Apr 2011, 22:38

Tako kot stvari zgledajo se mi zdi kot da je stricu Petru malo slava v glavo stopla. Mu bo treba malo krila postričt. Nonstop ga vidim po novicah pa pogovornih oddajah.

Morda bi Jaque-u morali poslati pismo češ da naj odnosti med TZM in TVP naj ne trpijo samo zato ker je njegov oče ustanovitelj skrenil s poti.
Slika
I do not wish to bely your powers of observation but I would like to remind you of the paradoks of asking a masked man who he is...
Tomaz
 
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Re: Ločitev-wtf?!

PrispevekNapisal/a Tarci » 20 Apr 2011, 00:42

Precej zmede je o vsem tem ... da pa ne bi podajala svojih mnenj, vam pošiljam povezavo, ki se mi zdi, da je dovolj objektivno napisana:

http://www.facebook.com/notes/brandy-ze ... 7593714198

Lp,
Tea
Tarci
Koordinator osrednjeslovenske regije
 
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Re: Ločitev-wtf?!

PrispevekNapisal/a Tarci » 20 Apr 2011, 02:21

Mogoče niti ni tako objektivno ...

Mnenje z moje strani: moram razumeti tudi Jacque Fresca. Konec koncev je že precej v letih in glede na to, da je The Venus Project njegovo dolgoletno delo, bi rad čim prej dosegel cilj, ki ga je začrtal (na prvi pogled zgleda precej egoistično). To želi doseči s filmom, ki bi načeloma tudi lahko prinesel velik uspeh glede dosega ljudi po vsem svetu (pa tudi finančno, kar bi tudi pripomoglo k gradnji).

Meni samo ni jasno, da Petra o svojih odločitvah nista obvestila. To je vse, kar mi s strani Roxanne in Jacqua ni všeč ter mogoče tudi to, da se je Roxanne izmikala direktnim vprašanjem oziroma nanje odgovarjala povsem medlo.
Tarci
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Re: Ločitev-wtf?!

PrispevekNapisal/a Tomaz » 20 Apr 2011, 11:28

Tarci je napisal/a:http://www.facebook.com/notes/brandy-zeitgeist/my-thoughts-on-the-tzmtvp-split-the-burning-building/196557593714198


Hej nisem jaz na facebooku, predvsem zaradi tega ker je ustanovitelj kapitalist. Očitno se bom vseeno moral registrirat... :(

Daj citiraj objavo tu no... :|
I do not wish to bely your powers of observation but I would like to remind you of the paradoks of asking a masked man who he is...
Tomaz
 
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Re: Ločitev-wtf?!

PrispevekNapisal/a fortehlulz » 20 Apr 2011, 12:56

Osredotočiti se moramo na to, da je "ločitev" primerna glede na trenutne smernice TVP in TZM. Različne smernice :arrow: ločeni organizaciji.
In v tej točki se strinjamo VSI.


Druga plat je sicer ta, da so informacije podali na kar se da grozen način, kar je mnoge prizadelo, tako da vas pozivam, da na dogajanje ne gledate čustveno.
Morate se tudi zavedati, da je stanje v nekaterih oddelkih TZM precej slabše, kot je tukaj, zato potrebujejo drugačen način podajanja informacij, da jih lahko razumejo.

Vsak lahko sodeluje v obeh organizacijah, tako da sploh ne vidim problema.

lp!
Whenever people agree with me I feel I must be wrong...
"nowhere" = "now" + "here"
fortehlulz
 
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Re: Ločitev-wtf?!

PrispevekNapisal/a Tomaz » 20 Apr 2011, 13:15

Če se boste ločili, boste to storili brez mene! Fresco ima vse načrtovano od dna do vrha, sedaj pa ko je nekdo dobil svojo idejo bi ga kar odpisali? Nehvaležneži!

Spomnite se kaj sploh Zeitgeist je! Aktivistična roka Venus projekta s katero bi delovali k temu da bi venus projekt lahko sploh začel mesta gradit in mu dobavljati večjo podporo.

Kaj bi pa vi storili? "thank you mr. Fresco but your services are no longer required." Ravno to, o čem je on govoril, vsak bi imel svoje "malo" mnenje, vsak bi po svoje delal. Preživetje naše civilizacije ni odpro za debate, nebo se rešilo tak da bi vsak svojo malo idejo mel in z njo po svoje šel.

On ma vse pogruntano, vi bi pa Arnold Šraufenceger šli. Razočarali ste me... :oops:
I do not wish to bely your powers of observation but I would like to remind you of the paradoks of asking a masked man who he is...
Tomaz
 
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Re: Ločitev-wtf?!

PrispevekNapisal/a fortehlulz » 20 Apr 2011, 14:29

hey... zdej delaš pa krivico celemu TZMju. Nikomur v TZM ni všeč, da so se v TVP tako odločili - vsi bi raje videli, da ostanemo skupaj. Ampak to je bila pač njihova želja, je pa osnovana na logiki.

nihče nikogar ni odpisal, samo VP se je odločil, da se oddaljijo od TZM zaradi različnih smernic.

bomo pa še zmeraj sodelovali na privat, saj nam s svojim znanjem lahko veliko pomagajo, mi pa njm s širjenjem besede (saj ne bo praktično nič drugače)
Whenever people agree with me I feel I must be wrong...
"nowhere" = "now" + "here"
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Re: Ločitev-wtf?!

PrispevekNapisal/a Tomaz » 20 Apr 2011, 15:18

Zdaj pa se kregaš o semantiki. To, kaj delate so politične kozlarije pa lahko obrneš to kako hočeš.

Narazen bomo šli samo bomo vseeno sodelovali. :lol:

Sploh bereš kaj ti pišeš?
I do not wish to bely your powers of observation but I would like to remind you of the paradoks of asking a masked man who he is...
Tomaz
 
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Re: Ločitev-wtf?!

PrispevekNapisal/a fortehlulz » 20 Apr 2011, 16:03

tomaž, tudi midva sodelujeva, pa še vedno ne vem če si sploh član TZM. in tudi če bi bil in se izpisal, bi še vseeno lahko sodelovala, je res?

TZM in TVP ne moreta več delovati pod eno streho, lahko pa TZM pomaga TVPju, kjer lahko - in obratno.
Whenever people agree with me I feel I must be wrong...
"nowhere" = "now" + "here"
fortehlulz
 
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Re: Ločitev-wtf?!

PrispevekNapisal/a Tomaz » 20 Apr 2011, 16:54

Če je to res, zakaj potem ni med vse registrirane prišla prošnja za donacije isti moment, ko je TVP naznanil, da želijo posneti film "future by design" ali pa kako se pač imenuje?

Tvoj miren odziv očitno kaže na nepoznavanje medsebojne zamotanosti med obema. Lahko to obrneš kakor hočeš, dogaja se zdaj, da je nekdo, kateremu se za svoj uspeh lahko zahvali TVP-ju ga hladnokrvno izdal in rekel, češ da bo vseeno vzdrževal odnose vendar pa naše ideje niso več naše.

Kako mislite, da to izgleda? enako kot države - vsaka svoje finte, vsaka samo sebe vodi, vendar pa vseeno "sodeluuuuujejo". Jaz sem pa zdaj razjarjen. Obnašamo se kot tolpa ritobriscev, ki misli da je bolj pametna od tistega, ki že 75 let razvija koncept mnogo boljše civilizacije in se še vedno podpisujemo pod njegovim imenom pod pretvezo, da bi povečali število svojih članov z kvazi-lažnim izgovorom, da bomo z njimi še vedno sodelovali.
I do not wish to bely your powers of observation but I would like to remind you of the paradoks of asking a masked man who he is...
Tomaz
 
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Re: Ločitev-wtf?!

PrispevekNapisal/a fortehlulz » 20 Apr 2011, 17:04

Tomaz je napisal/a:Tvoj miren odziv očitno kaže na nepoznavanje medsebojne zamotanosti med obema.

Nasprotno. Moj miren odziv kaže razumevanje tega, da sta zadevi preveč prepleteni, da bi ju sploh lahko ločil.
Zato si ne delam utvar o "grozni" situaciji, ampak že razmišljam, kako iz vsega skupaj izvleči čim bolj uspešno sodelovanje za obe organizaciji.
Whenever people agree with me I feel I must be wrong...
"nowhere" = "now" + "here"
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Re: Ločitev-wtf?!

PrispevekNapisal/a Tomaz » 20 Apr 2011, 17:33

Slika
Ne morem več, naj nekdo temu flegmatiku šamara stisne!
I do not wish to bely your powers of observation but I would like to remind you of the paradoks of asking a masked man who he is...
Tomaz
 
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Re: Ločitev-wtf?!

PrispevekNapisal/a Tarci » 20 Apr 2011, 20:08

Tomažu in ostalim, ki nimate Facebooka:

My thoughts on the TZM/TVP split - The Burning Building
objavil Brandy Zeitgeist dne 19. april 2011 ob 22:16

Dear Friends,

For those of you who do not know, as of the US meeting last night on TeamSpeak, which included input from both Peter & Roxanne, as well as various dedicated and concerned members, and lasted about 4+ hours total... The Zeitgeist Movement and The Venus Project are officially divided. It is important to Note that this was not Peter's wish, nor ours, but was Roxanne's. I pleaded with her repeatedly, as did others, to please give us more detailed and precise instructions as to what specifically she wanted us to do differently, and she would not give a straight answer. She simply repeated, "we want you to join with us, and work with us." To clarify, I asked if I could continue to support TVP, and she essentially said that she does not want TVP, or anyone supporting TVP, to be affiliated with any other name or organization. So, this means if I want to support TVP, I have to leave TZM. (How do you "leave TZM" anyway? It's a spirit. It's a direction.) I even suggested just re-naming TZM to TVP, but this defeats the purpose of what they are trying to do, which is have more direct control over every decision/direction, which will essentially require a more direct influence over a more exclusive group of people - exclusive to TVP, that is.

In one of my latest forum posts, I had stated that this wasn't a big deal, at the time, but I'll admit I underestimated the seriousness of the siutation, and I thought they would work it out, but they didn't - well, Roxanne didn't. However, my original point still stands, as far as what we will do, should using "The Venus Project" blueprint become a problem, or a conflict of interest.

Post 1: http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joo ... 114#333289 (Page 5, #41)

Post 2: http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joo ... 114#333811 (Page 6, #53)

For the people saying things like, "We will never be truly divided! This cannot happen, because TZM and TVP are one!" Sorry to burst your bubble. It most certainly can. They have specifically requested that we do not use their designs, drawings, materials, etc. Nothing. Obviously they cannot technically stop 500,000+ people from using their materials, but this leaves me asking the question of why we would want to, after last night.

I said to myself, Brandy, in the midst of all of these bruised egos... don't let that guide you. Look FORWARD, look to the FUTURE, and look to your heart to do what is right. WHAT DO YOU NEED TO DO right now to best help people around the world? The intial answer that came to mind was to continue to spread The Venus Project, which is how I got started before I joined The Zeitgeist Movement. (I found out about it from Addendum, but I did not yet know that there was a Movement.) So, I thought it's best to stick the original goal, and get TVP out there to as many people as possible. Then it dawned on me. Wait a minute... Shouldn't Jacque & Roxanne be asking themsleves the same question? And if so, then shouldn't the answer be for us to stay united? Shouldn't they be saying, "Yeah, TZM's not perfect, the world's not perfect, but we will do our best to work with people, given the situation, and that Jacque has little time left on this Earth." You'd think Roxanne would say to Jacque, "Give it time. Things may not always play out exactly as planned, but all of these people are working really hard on your behalf, to help make your dream come true." But no. It seems they've decided to put their personal feelings, and God only knows what other bullsh*t, in front of what's best for humanity right now, under these circumstances.

It is as if a building is on fire, and there is a policeman and a fireman standing outside arguing about how to put it out. The fireman (TVP) says "We need a fire-hose (major motion picture) to put this fire out." The policeman (TZM) says "Sh*t, we don't have a fire-hose right now, nor can we afford one, but we will all work together using these buckets of water (online activism, Z-day, etc.) to help put it out, until we find a hose." The fireman leaves, saying "f*ck you, I'm finding a hose, and meanwhile... DON'T USE ANY OF OUR BUCKETS!" WTF???

People are dying. A collapse is coming. Even more people will die. And if all you can do at this stage is direct us to "join TVP" (whatever that means, since this was never answered in the 4-hr TeamSpeak meeting, although asked repeatedly) - I have no choice but to follow my heart, my common sense, and my gut instinct that tells me that this temper tantrum is not about what's in the best interest of HUMANITY - THE 7 BILLION PEOPLE ON THIS PLANET, but it's about "The Venus Project," "the movie," "Jacque's dream(s) coming true before he passes away," etc. I have no respect for that, and I will not follow that - regardless of how good the blueprint is. As mush as I love The Venus Project, if the people behind it are untrustworthy, unreliable, and are willing to piss away ~3 years of the work of over a half-million people, I can only imagine what kind of disappointments we'd be setting ourselves up for in the future, by continuing to give them our time and energy.

So in conclusion, there are two reason why I will no longer advocate The Venus Project itself:

1) They will not allow me to.

2) If you say "Yes, they will allow you to; you just have to leave TZM!" Bingo. The fact that I have to leave TZM (or any group for that matter, especially one who loves and supports them) raises a HUGE red flag in terms of integrity and intentions at this stage. Peter Joseph has NEVER dictated what group anyone is a part of in this Movement. He has merely presented the data and helped people to follow this train of thought.

What I've always LOVED (literally loved, from the heart) about TVP from the start was their answer to this question on their website:

Question: "What Can You Do to Help?"

Answer:

Learn more about the direction of The Venus Project through our books and DVD's. If you can’t afford to purchase them, we provide many free in our Downloads section.
Talk to others about The Venus Project and the Resource-Based Economy concepts.
Start group meetings in your area to show relevant films from The Venus Project & The Zeitgeist Movement and discuss possibilities that the group can do.

Translate The Venus Project website or other materials into different languages.
If you would like to help in this way, please contact Ray at gman@thezeitgeistmovement.com. Please mention that you want to help with The Venus Project materials.
Set up major showings of Zeitgeist Addendum.
Head over to The Zeitgeist Movement website and join The Movement towards a much more sane future.
Join and contribute in various Projects at The Zeitgeist Movement.
Help set up lectures at conferences, colleges or universities for The Venus Project.
Sign Aaron Vannatta's Petition for The Venus Project.
Initiate your own online radio shows &/or introduce the concepts on live radio shows.
Consider ways to create positive TV exposure for the Venus Project.
Write and submit magazine articles about the Resource-Based Economy concepts or about The Venus Project itself.
Download The Zeitgeist Movement Digital Orientation Presentation Slide-Show [video of the presentation] and present this yourself to groups of people. For further informational help with this presentation you can refer to The Zeitgeist Movement Orientation Guide.
Write poems, make music, create animations about this new direction. If you would like them presented on this website, please submit them here.
Discuss RBE concepts and The Venus Project on blogs and forums.
If you have any ideas to promote and expose this direction that are related to your own skills and connections, we would love to hear from you.
Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows have been financially supporting this project through outside jobs for 35 years. We are now beginning to get donations and we deeply appreciate your contributions in this way. Unfortunately we still live in a monetary system and there is no other way we can produce models, print the books or make the videos we make freely available to everyone.
The Venus Project is asking for donations to develop a feature length major motion picture focused on life within a resource-based economy. It will depict living in clean, sustainable cities and will show how we get from here to there, while answering many of the typical questions people pose. It will be an awakening to many as it portrays, in detail, a global civilization which secures, protects, and encourages a much more humane world for all people. Please visit our Donations page if you are able to contribute anything toward making this happen. Also, if you know anyone in the movie industry who may identify with this direction, please introduce them to The Venus Project and get in touch with us.

THAT'S WHAT WE ARE DOING (or were doing) and HAVE ALWAYS BEEN DOING, and if they are going to throw away ALL SEVENTEEN of the other steps and contributions because we can't do the last one (right now)... I'm appalled... and I'm also... sorry to say that if that is their choice, and they refuse to let anyone use their drawings, designs, website, etc. - that is, anyone who is affiliated with any other group - I fear that Jacque will go to his grave having never seen "The Venus Project" (or his movie for that matter) even begin to come to fruition. The whole POINT of this direction was to spread the idea far and wide to as many people as possible, and by RESTRICTING who is "allowed" to do that, they've shot themselves in the foot. Everyone should be doing it. Period. They should thank their lucky stars for what Peter and others have done. HELLO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTvzBJAB0Sw#t=0m35s

The problem is, they don't budge. It's "my way or the highway." Look at what happened with Earth 2.0, and even back then, I took TVP's side and stuck with them. I'm sure we've all secretly asked ourselves how it's possible that they could be sitting on such a brilliant idea for SEVENTY years, and nothing's happened. Now we know. It's because they constantly push people away who are trying to help them. I must say that I don't entirely blame Jacque because he's old and doesn't really understand the general Zeitgeist, but Roxanne should, or she should at least try, considering everyone's hard work. Jacque has always said "I don't want statues erected in my name." "Architects design buildings for their ego; I don't design them for that," etc. How is this extremely rash and hurtful decision, against the wishes of SO MANY loving and supportive people, about ANYTHING OTHER THAN ego? Roxanne entered the meeting saying that she wants to "thank" everyone for everything they've done thus far, but everything she says thereafter completely voids that thanks. You can't say one thing, and then do another that shows nothing but ungreatfulness. Actions speak louder than words. (I don't care if it's a cliché; it's true in most cases, and especially this one, so get over it.) I don't even want to get into how much work Peter, and others, (but mostly Peter) put into ZEITGEIST MOVING FORWARD, and it was all to help TVP get off the ground. Now they've said "thanks, but no thanks," so even though the message behind ZMF still stands, it is "tainted" with footage of "that which we are not allowed to use or speak of..." How insane is that? The film has over 5 and a half million views (on YouTube alone), and now it's giving everyone conflicting go-to information. Roxanne says she's "tired" of having to apologize, of having to compromise. Well we're all "tired" too. We're "tired" of asking detailed questions and getting vague answers. We're "tired" of defending these vague answers to the skeptics. We're tired of asking Jacque specific questions and getting "boomerang" answers at the rate of frozen molasses... (lol, love you, Jacque ;) But guess what, we've had RESPECT for TVP, and therefore we've had PATIENCE. Where's yours?

Please don't insult our intelligence by saying things like "Well, Peter was more artistic and Jacque is more scientific," as if this split was "for the best," because it's not. Both parties (and ultimately the world) will suffer, to some degree, from this unfortunate dividing of awesome forces, at the worst possible time. And please don't say that this is not about the proposed movie, because it is. You want to know how I know? Well, listen to the recording... aside from the fact that she shows NO EMOTION whatsoever, until the subject of the MOVIE is raised... the bottom line is, if this were NOT an issue of frustration and pride, Roxanne could have EASILY taken the initiative to say, "We are not comfortable with X, Y, and Z, so we need to have a major revamp/overhaul of this whole Movement structure, website, etc. We feel we need more specific control and/or direction of the teams, so we need a better communication outlet for people to follow our instructions more carefully. Let's all work on this improvement together, in order to more accurately reflect The Venus Project, and Jacque's vision." There was no need for such a strict and stubborn division. I'm heartbroken.

But we will Move Forward. This may slow us down, but it won't stop us. And at the end of the day, as Gil said in his e-mail to the chapters, it's time for TZM to grow up. This will push us to do that and to really take the reigns.

I want everyone to try to maintain a positive attutide, and despite my obvious frustration in this post, I intend to do the same. I had a very long talk with Myles Dyer last night, and this changes nothing in terms of launching the Unviersal Solutions Project: http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=gro ... 2084182130. In fact, it's happening just in time. Peter is very much on board with this, and I'm looking forward to its development. I have already e-mailed Charles Collis, the founder of http://www.adciv.org/ to touch base, and ensure that we have his permission and support to continue using the information there, and directing people there. I have already spoken to Joseph Jackson, coordinator of http://www.opensciencesummit.com/, long before this fallout, to work on a broader proposal for a Resource Based Economy anyway. No better time to get started than now.

My heart goes out to you all in this difficult yet liberating time.

Love,
Brandy
Tarci
Koordinator osrednjeslovenske regije
 
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Re: Ločitev-wtf?!

PrispevekNapisal/a eqnanul1 » 20 Apr 2011, 23:48

Tomaz je napisal/a:Tako kot stvari zgledajo se mi zdi kot da je stricu Petru malo slava v glavo stopla. Mu bo treba malo krila postričt. Nonstop ga vidim po novicah pa pogovornih oddajah.

Morda bi Jaque-u morali poslati pismo češ da naj odnosti med TZM in TVP naj ne trpijo samo zato ker je njegov oče ustanovitelj skrenil s poti.


+1

Poslusal sem cel teamspeak chat in moram reci da se je Peter res malo prevec "razpizdil" zraven tega pa se mi se zdi nesprejemljivo da Denisu napise na fafbuk "You need me and I need you so swalow it!". Ce se spustim na njegov nivo. WTF?! Kaj si tip misli da je? Oz kaj hoce doseci na tak nacin razen tega da se se vec ljudi obrne proti njemu.

A kljub temu upam da se še lahko ta zadeva uskladi in da se zadeve ponovno zdruzijo... Do takrat pa Denis way is the right way!

cya
eqnanul1
 
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Re: Ločitev-wtf?!

PrispevekNapisal/a fortehlulz » 21 Apr 2011, 07:49

Tomaz je napisal/a:Ne morem več, naj nekdo temu flegmatiku šamara stisne!

a bi blo po tvoje bolš tkole:

pička jima materna!!! :evil: :evil: KAJ SE GREJO!!! :x :o namest da bi skupaj stopili za skupni cilj, se PJ rajš pizdi po teamspeak kot da je bog, VP pa kar iz lufta izstopi z izjavo da hočejo met "control".

:roll:

Upam, da zdaj vidiš, da je bolj primeren pristop "flegmatika" (sploh če je moja naloga, ki jo vključuje moderatorstvo, mirit strasti)


eqnanul1 je napisal/a:zraven tega pa se mi se zdi nesprejemljivo da Denisu napise na fafbuk "You need me and I need you so swalow it!"

Če se prav spominjam, je tole napisal denis, v objavi pa taggal PJa.
Whenever people agree with me I feel I must be wrong...
"nowhere" = "now" + "here"
fortehlulz
 
Prispevki: 338
Pridružen: 13 Feb 2011, 21:36
Lokacija: Kranj

Re: Ločitev-wtf?!

PrispevekNapisal/a fortehlulz » 21 Apr 2011, 07:55

HairMan je napisal/a:
The name of the organization originates from Venus, Florida, where its 21-acre (8.5-hectare) research center is located, near Lake Okeechobee.

Florida (i /ˈflɒrɪdə/) is a state in the southeastern United States, on the Gulf Coast.


:mrgreen:

Spomnite se prosim, zakaj recimo Wikileaks nima postavljenih stržnikov v ameriki. A se vam ne zdi logično? nočem spet nekih teorij zarote spodbujat, ampak to se dogaja. WL lahko v evropi normalno operira, v ZDA bi ga pa radi aretirali.

Glede na to, da se je celotno gibanje razmahnilo po evropi v neke vrste anti-ameriško propagando, to za oblast pomeni: TOO MUCH INFO LEAKING.
Gibanja seveda ne morejo ustaviti, lahko pa pritisnejo na organizacije, locirane v ameriki, zagorozijo z zaplembo, zaporom, ipd. Ali pa so že njihovi zakoni taki, da grozijo s tem.

In Roxanne v svojem nastopu po TeamSpeaku ni zvenela prav nič iskreno. Kot da bi kaj prikrivala.


Samo razmišljam, lahko da se motim...
Whenever people agree with me I feel I must be wrong...
"nowhere" = "now" + "here"
fortehlulz
 
Prispevki: 338
Pridružen: 13 Feb 2011, 21:36
Lokacija: Kranj

Re: Ločitev-wtf?!

PrispevekNapisal/a Tomaz » 21 Apr 2011, 14:55

pička jima materna!!! :evil: :evil: KAJ SE GREJO!!! :x :o namest da bi skupaj stopili za skupni cilj, se PJ rajš pizdi po teamspeak kot da je bog, VP pa kar iz lufta izstopi z izjavo da hočejo met "control".


No vidiš, saj ni blo tak težko. :lol:
I do not wish to bely your powers of observation but I would like to remind you of the paradoks of asking a masked man who he is...
Tomaz
 
Prispevki: 433
Pridružen: 17 Feb 2011, 16:28

Re: Ločitev-wtf?!

PrispevekNapisal/a fortehlulz » 22 Apr 2011, 23:19

The Venus Project official statement:
Many in TZM would like to disseminate our material. We would appreciate this. You can use our materials on TVP and show our photos in their street activism but only if they keep it separate from TZM materials. That means anything that you do concerning The Venus Project on flyers or leaflets etc. is only The Venus Project materials and you only have The Venus Project website on there not TZM. We would require that you put TVP website on any material that you use. If you want to help pass this information to others this would be helpful.
THE VENUS PROJECT
Whenever people agree with me I feel I must be wrong...
"nowhere" = "now" + "here"
fortehlulz
 
Prispevki: 338
Pridružen: 13 Feb 2011, 21:36
Lokacija: Kranj


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